why does everyone always try to compare MMA/ combat-heavy martial arts with traditional martial arts? i always hear people talking about how %26quot; traditional styles dont offer any real fighting application and are just for show%26quot;. (besides the fact that i believe thats totally false) isnt there alot more to martial arts than jsut self-defense anyway. what about things like tradition. and honor and all that other good stuff, isnt that what makes us martial artist instead of just fighters?
i guess my real question is why do MMA advocates always feel the need to talk down to traditional styles?
Traditional arts vs MMA?
Tell them that a Taekwondo and Kyokushin black belt has already been a MMA champ. His name is Bas Rutten.
I%26#039;m an advocate of mixed martial arts and I take Hakko-Ryu Jujutsu which includes weapons and Shito-Ryu Karate which is the most kata-heavy karate though traditional sparring is also a focus. Guess what MMA is mixed up OF....%26quot;unmixed%26quot; martial arts, of course. However, a professional needs to train for the cage/ring/pit and doesn%26#039;t waste time standing in rows of students doing combinations for 1-2 hours a night because they have their own training regimen tailored specifically to their needs. In a sanctioned event, you can only use certain techniques so you might as well spend your time TRAINING WITH THOSE instead of practicing with knives or setting up someone to break their fingers or do an aerial knee-snapper. That%26#039;d win ya a cage match if you could get past the handwraps and the leg kicks though it might be yer last paid fight. It%26#039;s like a boxer working on his takedowns for the WBA title he wants to win. One would think he needs to be more productive with his time if he is to win. It%26#039;s all about efficiency and quality because their money and their record is on the line. Us amateurs get the run of the mill usually, be it good or bad. Most of the amateurs that take one of these newfangled MMA classes for an hour a night probably couldn%26#039;t raise a hand to a taekwondo competitor. Or even that weakling Oyama. Who was ethnically Korean btw which is why a lot of Koreans like Kyokushin. Killed a few bulls? I eat sharks for breakfast. Underwater. There IS a certain best way to fight, but the problem is that everyone fights differently because of skill and physical ability and that best way of fighting changes depending on the opponent! And I mean UNARMED fighting. The best armed fighting is Nu Kyu Lar.
On the other hand,
Combat sport itself is a VERY ancient tradition of human friggin civilization. Keeps us from having to do REAL fighting when we git the urge. Pankration, wrestling, bareknuckle boxing were all around before Dana White was a glimmer in his great great great great great grandfather%26#039;s unborn friggin eye. Muay Thai Boran is old as dirt! Judo doesn%26#039;t even have a century under its belt. Get it...Century...Belt...largest equipment supplier...bad joke...ANYWAY, TMA%26#039;s were not developed for the cage/ring/pit. One would think that a referee, gloves, handwraps, doctor, and police would get in the way of some of the more awesome snake kung fu strikes, eh? That is not to say that a good karateka couldn%26#039;t do a ring match if he worked on his clinch and sprawl stuff, though he will wish he%26#039;d spent more time on those in lieu of gi-grabbing chokes. The ref will still let you do some tradition-ish things like knifehand, spin side kick, offensive blocks, heel hook, hip throw, all that.
Wonder how the Kimura got its name? That is the question.
Reply:certain styles of martial arts are for some and some are not. Jeet Kune Do not for show TKD For show... ppl tend to over look aspects of the martial art in the sense of honor, respect and what not because it is what most ppl consider the PANSY part of karate soo... if you want full contact fighting and traditional values many styles offer that (i.e. JKD, Goju shorei, American Goju, some ju-jitsu styles, etc.)
Reply:aucually most of what you see today are pretty new in the grand scheme of martial arts... and back in the day trainin used 2 be far more brutal.. n stuff.. well dependin on how u train 2day... ne ways id go traditional all the way... theres more do 2 it.. plus mma techniques are based off of rules... so u dont learn the many techniques that are outside the rules
Reply:MMAs are not a martial art style their a sport that includes fighters who have some sorta martial arts training or background. Its a Mix of varying Martial art styles, as the name implies.
However, not all MMAs have training in the martial arts, Ken shamrock is one that comes to mind who does not. Some others are: Sean Sherk, David Abbot, Mark Coleman, Rich Franklin, Forrest Griffin, and Kendall grove.
Reply:quite simply because most TMAists will avoid sparring to show thier skills with flimsy excuses to avoid a friendly training competition or %26quot;play%26quot;.
Many TMAists actually hide behind false %26quot;honor, or traditions%26quot; to avoid them losing. Them turning away is saving face.
There are lots of realistic TMAists, however the fact that there are a few bad ones that scream loudest.
Fact is there is nothing %26quot;spiritual%26quot; or %26quot;honorable%26quot; about martial arts, anyone who says that it is part of learning a martial art is full of s hit. It can be taught ALONGSIDE a martial art, but martial arts is about fighting, nothing else.
A martial artist is someone who studies learns and possibly improves (or tries to) thier fighting ability.
%26quot;honor%26quot; and %26quot;spirituality%26quot; are qualities of the individual, not the style.
First off- realistically, you take one person who studies two different TMAs say judo and boxing, they are now a %26quot;mixed martial artist%26quot;.
MMA is a confused term by many people. You are talking about two extremes of people both are deserving of ridicule.
on one hand you have the TMAists who are afraid to train against a (supposed MMAist- one who follows mma rules basically) because they have ego invested in thier style- not themselves as a fighter (isn%26#039;t that why you take martial arts in the first place? to learn to fight and defend yourself?). They will come up with all manner of excuses to cover up the fact that they are afraid to put thier skills to the test even in a friendly situaiton. Outlandish claims like %26quot;my style is too deadly to spar%26quot; come out.
Ok, I might buy that if your style involved %26quot;gun kata%26quot;- but oh noes! they make paintball guns! An easy and cheap and safe way to show us your %26quot;gun kata%26quot; (its from equilibrium- if you don%26#039;t know go to a mental hospital).
The MMA camp extremists tend to discount any hardcore training that isn%26#039;t consisting of bjj and muai thai. So thier initial knee jerk reaction is that TMAists are all like that and none train realistically and that all make excuses. They however won%26#039;t look or realize that realistically trained TMA can add to thier game or be on equal or greater footing with one part of it (its TMA- I don%26#039;t think any art that doesn%26#039;t involve WMD is a %26quot;complete%26quot; art).
people who follow mma sportative rules also tend to mix up the fact that any marital artist that mixes two or more arts IS an MMA stylist- they might not be covering thier game completely or making themselves a complete fighter with those two- but they are still mixed martial artists.
If you are a martial artist you MUST be training to fight.
That is the proverb that TMAist bullshidoka forget
Reply:The simply answer is that most guys that train MMA (not nessissarily fight) are pragmatists that want to know that what they train will actually work when the $h!t hits the fan. As a whole TMA%26#039;s don%26#039;t give you that.
If you look at how MMA guys train its a very simple and basic form, Boxing/Muay Thai, Wrestling, and a submission art (usually BJJ). We take the basic stuff that has a high percentage of working from these arts and train that. We test all the theory stuff and only use what has proven effective. We spar and we fight full contact so that we know what to expect in a fight and so we don%26#039;t panic.
It isn%26#039;t that TMA%26#039;s offer nothing of value but that they rely too much on theory without testing it enough. Most schools sparring sessions are weak at best and most traditional arts are flooded with stuff that looks good in the movies but aren%26#039;t very practical (not to mention most are one-dimentional).
I personally don%26#039;t talk down TMA (except tae kwon do) and actually see alot of value in elements of most. My issue comes in that they rely too much on untested theory.
(And for the record I%26#039;ve known alot of TMA%26#039;ists that talk down to MMA guys cuz we suppossedly lack honor and discipline. To those that think that way, I%26#039;m willing to bet you%26#039;ve never trained at a real MMA gym...)
Reply:if MMA people have a %26#039;chip%26#039; its because for hundreds of years all these kung-fu guys have talked about the DimMak and letal/deadly moves, that all turned out to be total crap when rules were illiminated and Ju-jitsu%26#039;s boring hugging won matches against guys doing triple spin ballet kicks.
No ancient Chinese secrets or waax on wax off garbage, just analysing coldly what works and what doesn%26#039;t.
Martial arts is primarily for self defence after all. If you want the cardio and stamina, tradition, etc... then good for you. Most people take it to beat down trouble makers.
Reply:[my new account, apparently yahoo thinks giving people who ask stupid questions pictures of roadkill is in bad tatse]
quite simply because most TMAists will avoid sparring to show thier skills with flimsy excuses to avoid a friendly training competition or %26quot;play%26quot;.
Many TMAists actually hide behind false %26quot;honor, or traditions%26quot; to avoid them losing. Them turning away is saving face.
There are lots of realistic TMAists, however the fact that there are a few bad ones that scream loudest.
Fact is there is nothing %26quot;spiritual%26quot; or %26quot;honorable%26quot; about martial arts, anyone who says that it is part of learning a martial art is full of s hit. It can be taught ALONGSIDE a martial art, but martial arts is about fighting, nothing else.
A martial artist is someone who studies learns and possibly improves (or tries to) thier fighting ability.
%26quot;honor%26quot; and %26quot;spirituality%26quot; are qualities of the individual, not the style.
First off- realistically, you take one person who studies two different TMAs say judo and boxing, they are now a %26quot;mixed martial artist%26quot;.
MMA is a confused term by many people. You are talking about two extremes of people both are deserving of ridicule.
on one hand you have the TMAists who are afraid to train against a (supposed MMAist- one who follows mma rules basically) because they have ego invested in thier style- not themselves as a fighter (isn%26#039;t that why you take martial arts in the first place? to learn to fight and defend yourself?). They will come up with all manner of excuses to cover up the fact that they are afraid to put thier skills to the test even in a friendly situaiton. Outlandish claims like %26quot;my style is too deadly to spar%26quot; come out.
Ok, I might buy that if your style involved %26quot;gun kata%26quot;- but oh noes! they make paintball guns! An easy and cheap and safe way to show us your %26quot;gun kata%26quot; (its from equilibrium- if you don%26#039;t know go to a mental hospital).
The MMA camp extremists tend to discount any hardcore training that isn%26#039;t consisting of bjj and muai thai. So thier initial knee jerk reaction is that TMAists are all like that and none train realistically and that all make excuses. They however won%26#039;t look or realize that realistically trained TMA can add to thier game or be on equal or greater footing with one part of it (its TMA- I don%26#039;t think any art that doesn%26#039;t involve WMD is a %26quot;complete%26quot; art).
people who follow mma sportative rules also tend to mix up the fact that any marital artist that mixes two or more arts IS an MMA stylist- they might not be covering thier game completely or making themselves a complete fighter with those two- but they are still mixed martial artists.
If you are a martial artist you MUST be training to fight.
cotton tree
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