Technique or training first?

im having a debate, I do martial arts (jujitsu-go shin ryu) and im confused, im slim, healthy and not in bad shape. i dont go to the gym as i live a healthy life style.





when i asked my training partner if we could hire a hall out so we could train more as we only train once a week, he said i should do it at home.





now im not sure about you out there but i have trouble putting people in wrist/arm/shoulder/leg locks when they arent there, and dont get me started on the throws!!!





i dont have room to complete my katas at my house but i run through them in my head all the time.





so can i really improve my martial art by just exercising? or am i right to assume that i need the technique practice too?





but how do you do something like that?





when i asked them this they just said %26quot;do your stretches%26quot;





can i really improve the art like that or am i right to assume that with jujitsu go shin ryu i need more practicle practice?





thank you very much


xiè xiè nín.


Arigat.

Technique or training first?
to become a competent martial artist


is about training intelligently





different training will give different results


stetching will make you more flexible and faster


running sprints will make you faster


hitting a punch-bag will increase the power of your punches





work out your strengths and utilize them in your sparring


work out your weaknesses and train intelligently to make them strengths


this way you will become an effective and well rounded martial artist





fitness and exercise will improve some of your raw aggregates


however


technique is the most important thing





without technique you can expend a lot of energy for nothing or even hurt yourself or put yourself in a harmful position


with technique you can expend a few grams of weight and destroy your opponent


but it is not possible to enter the technique fully without training with a partner





how else can you ever know if what you are doing is of any use or really understand the dynamics and subtleties of the movement?








think of yourself as the master of your mansion-(the body)


you attitude should be that the master is home, and from this repsonsiveness you interact effortlessly with the external environment





you cannot have this ease of movement, nor hope to be effective in it without training and experience





you improve your tools-(techniques and movements) and the usefulness of your responses in combat by training


different trainings will improve different aspects of your tools and responses


reflexes, strength, speed, accuracy, timing, placement, weight shifting etc.





however, once you have improved these and while you can improve them to extraordinary lengths





combat is not about the %26quot;raw aggregates%26quot; but rather about the mental side


the ability to utilize your tools effectively, efficiently and usefully


control of timing, distance, weight of your opponent, movement


can only really be learned through combat experience





it is a great idea to do the mental visualisations, however these need to be translated to the movement as well-(sometimes not always)


often there is either one or the other, do both together at least sometimes


precision in training rewards you with effortless excellence in combat





with any martial art or sport practical application is absolutely essential


it is how you learn the most, the most effectively and the most about yourself and your martial arts


the more you get the better


however, you should also try to vary your opponents to keep your martial arts fresh


otherwise you run the risk of developing a stylised response








hope thats of use to you


consider what it is you want to improve


consider what specific training will improve that





exercise will not improve your technique unless it is focused specifically


it may even throw your technique out by over-developing a resistant muscle group


however it will help to make you healthy


fit and perhaps stronger


which can be useful for your martial arts





train intelligently, with purpose and you cant go wrong





(as a post note i would caution against jogging- (it tightens the leg muscles and develops slow twitch muscle fibre) its a mindless and not particulary useful training





as an example- running or sprinting in bursts (interspaced with stretching) up or down a mountain where extreme sure-footedness is needed is far better





it develops co-ordination, confidence, ballence, and fast-twitch muscle fibre





still it does not develop the mastery of the specific technique you desire
Reply:train first and develop technique as you go along remembering that you develop your own style within the technique
Reply:usually training first then develop your technique - but it would appear your question is about practising. I don%26#039;t know - just do your best





good luck
Reply:I think doing your stretches is very good everyday, and after that you could do some of the techniques that you could manage in your home. When the training day come, you could see the difference and it will improve your flexibility in your body.
Reply:jien dao ni hen gao shiin shifu.





You must develop technique under supervision first before training at it, otherwise you may be entrenching bad technique.





Training in raw fitness is an excellent idea though. It will improve your concentration and your ability to absorb new information even though approaching physical exhastion. This is essential in learning how others fight and developing strategies to defeat them.





Be careful, however to not train too much using techniques which you are still perfecting for the reasons given above.





Regarding Katas. It is possible to practice through visualisation. Even small body movements will help anchor the memory of the individual movements. (I called these phone-booth katas).





zai jian.
Reply:For Grappling styles, I think yo udefinitely need a partner.
Reply:yeah u can%26#039;t work on technique by urself if u live in so cal then i would tell u 2 come over and i would train with u but i think exersiceing is also important when it comes 2 martial arts because if the other person works out and is stronger then u then u will most likely lose if u guys are evenly matched when it comes 2 skill. u also don%26#039;t have 2 stretch all day u can do stuff like push ups sit ups pull ups and all the body wieght exeercises that will get u in the shape needed 4 martial arts.
Reply:you need techniqe too.





And while it is a valid point that you don%26#039;t want to be practicing bad technique, you won%26#039;t know unless you practice, and use it on a fully resisting opponent.





What is your goals in taking martial arts?


I would be extremely suspect of a gym that told you to just %26quot;do your stretches%26quot; instead of training.





There is not many things you can actually do on your own, but that is better than doing nothing, but it is still not nearly as important as training with a partner that is fully resisting.





Katas arent going to do anything for you anyway so it doesn%26#039;t even matter if you do those or not. You want to find someone who will trian against you with full resistance and see if you can do what you have learned. If not you might want to find another school.





If you are just doing it for excercise then do whatever makes you sweat most but if you are doing it to learn to fight, then you should be aware of what you are learning and be able to use it.
Reply:Yea, you need a training partner. Have you reached out to the community to find another place, another gym, another person to train with? Yes visualization is important for sports and martial arts and can help. You do need practical experience though. I suppose you could work on getting into top shape with work outs but I really think 1x/week is low unless this is just a fun hobby. In that case, 1x/week is fine for fun stuff :)


You can try to get a grappling dummy to help a little... but a real live person is always better... sometimes no one is available.
Reply:If I were you, I would do both. Practise the techniques and katas with a partner, and do strecthes and weight-training as an extra, at a gym.


As you stated, it%26#039;s difficult to practise locks/throws with an %26#039;imaginary%26#039; partner, it%26#039;s not the same if you don%26#039;t have a partner.





Good luck, train safely!
Reply:It is once thing to TRAIN at home, and anothe to do so in a atmoshpere with other students and teacher.





TO me they go hand in hand. Learning martial arts in training. When I was on off Dojo time years ago I would use a garage or a gym someplace to train with others in the class on our own so the next class we were ready.
Reply:Because i only have five hours a week to train technique in judo, i try not to waste my class time warming up or conditioning with conventional excersizing. I try to use the time given to me entierly for learning and improving technique, and randori/sparring. Outiside of class i do other excersizing and training to improve my conditioning. For an hour just before class, i box, i joined boxing about five years ago, and now i have no need to warm up for judo besides breakfalls. On my off nights from judo, i do one night of boxing and two nights of kickboxing, neither of these are similar to judo in any way, but they are a great cardiovascular workout and it is a great thing to do. Also, i joined a mixed martial arts (western style) club about three years ago, with thier varied techniques taken from judo, jujitsu and wrestling, it keeps me sharper to adapting to new techniques.


So yes, if you are unable to spend more time practicing with a partner outside of class time, then do other training, join a gym, or just work out at your house, start jogging and running long distances, skipping, improve your flexibility and your acrobatic ability. Read books on jujitsu, train your body and your mind, every second passed is a second wasted, don%26#039;t sit around whining in your head that you can%26#039;t do jujitsu, make the best of your situation and improve yourself in other areas, so when you can do jujitsu, you can take in more without wasting any time.
Reply:i must be missing something here but doesn%26#039;t it go hand in hand?


dont you do what you can do when you can do it?anyone with an iq over 1 would know if you dont have a partner you work on something else.there%26#039;s always something you can work on and improve whether it be technique,fitness,flexability,your chi,theory,etc.etc.etc.thats like saying whats the point of shadow boxing(which is working on your hand and foot movements as well as fitness)and not doing it because you dont have anyone to spar with?i hope this helps after all the other crap you%26#039;ve read.
Reply:telling you to do stretches is crap. you cant just stretch your life away and hope to win in a fight. they are good, but no one has time to stretch before a fight. stretching after is probably more important. blah blah...





having a partner is gold, and if you cant find one, go to another gym that has more hours, or more serious people. one day a week is better than nothing, but you really need 2 or more to start progressing past curiosity.





the people you train with suck, and are in it for the image, and not the learning. move on...
Reply:i would train at home the key is not to try and do the throws and grapples by your self but to remeber that you need speed,focus,and power to do the moves/techniques so work on those areas of your trainning plus trainning your mind is quite excellent as for your katas go in the backyard if you have one or front yard which ever and just remeber if you wanna have your techniques foolproff then practise and train until it becomes second nature only then the technique will be yours ohh by the way if you wanna call yourself a martial artist one day is nonsence just to train it should be at least three days a week good luck.
Reply:Practicing by yourself can be a challenge . Sometimes however , doing so may improve your ability to comprehend the movement . Try training with more then one partner also . This will get you more accustomed to different strengths and weaknesses .
Reply:Hi Xie Xie Nin. I train at karate I have been training since the age of 8 and I have not really learnt anything until I watched the world championships in Finland. Now I am learned the Bunkai of my Kata perfecting throws kicks finger strikes ect. But I have the same problem as you. I train at home with a good work out but I too have little space so kata is hard. But I hire a hall out on Fridays and I train along with a guy from my club.





I guess I feel confident when practising kumite to practise with some one else. I guess it%26#039;s the same with you too. Perhaps you just need to choose another club or find a friend who%26#039;s committed like you are. I bet your great. Would love to learn jui jitsu.
Reply:Technique or Training? While studying the martial arts for over 29years now, I can tell you straight off that you need another training partner. You obviously have more desire and drive then your training partner and you can%26#039;t put one with drive with one that doesn%26#039;t have that level of desire. You%26#039;re having trouble with training by yourself, and given your martial style, you need a training partner once again. If you don%26#039;t have room in your house then let%26#039;s consider the great outdoors. Visualization is an incredible tool keep that part going strong. You can greatly improve your art by exercising, and you can greatly improve your art through repetition of technique they go hand in hand. You need both exercise and technique practice to advance within yourself and outwardly to express your martial art. How do you do something like that? Find a new training partner, join a school if you don%26#039;t already belong to one and or find a new school. When you asked %26#039;them%26#039;? Sounds like you need a new school given your statement, %26quot;When I asked them this they just said %26#039;do your stretches%26#039;.%26quot; You will not reach total improvement until you change the situation by the afore mentioned criteria. As far as technique versus training is like saying, what really paints a wall, the paint or the brush? You can%26#039;t have one without the other.
Reply:I stretch as soon as I get up in the morning and before I go to bed at night. I also train for 30 min to 1 hours every night must going through my kata%26#039;s. You can go through arm locks, bars, sweeps. Just picture your opponent in front of you and go through your steps. If you have a hard time getting to that mind set, get a water noodle and put is in the couch to the %26quot;arm%26quot; is sticking toward you, it can also be a leg, weapon, etc... Where there is a will and dedication there is a way.
Reply:in my opinion you do need extra practice with live partners there is no substitute. good luck
Reply:Keep visualising, it is an underated and very benefical way of training. If you want more practice with a partner in a class environment then why don%26#039;t you ask the instructor if he/she would run more classes per week. I%26#039;m sure he/she would if enough of your class requested it.
Reply:No, you cannot improve your Martial Arts skills by JUST stretching and exercising. However, since you cannot practice kata or techniques without a partner and withour proper room to do it, exercising and stretching is about the best you CAN do. Certainly it cannot HURT.


Also, continue practicing the techniques in your head. There is a very definate link between visualization and actual practice- sometimes the brain cannot tell the difference. If you are doing it wrong, your instructor will correct it in the next class.


Bottom line- it%26#039;s best to train with a partner in a nice open area, preferrably with padding, and with an instructor. If you cannot get this perfect training conditions outside class, you have to just do the best you can.


Hope this helps...


Sensei Cox
Reply:HI, I do wado ryu karate and bujinkan togakure ninpo (ninja). Do kata%26#039;s in your bedroom or garden. in front of a mirror. even walking down the street is a transferance of weight, also known as different stances. as for the loxks and stuff, read martial art books, watch videos and talk to other people who train to see what they do. have fun.
Reply:You cannot improve your Martial Arts skills by only stretching and exercising. Since you say you cannot practice kata or techniques without a partner and withour proper room to do it, exercising and stretching is about the best thing that you can do. I would add that you continue to practice the techniques by visualising them in your head. There is a very definate link between visualization and physical practice - often the brain cannot tell the difference. If you are doing it wrong, your instructor can correct in the next class. Goodluck %26amp; enjoy


Bottom line- it%26#039;s best to train with a partner in a nice open area, preferrably with padding, and with an instructor. If you cannot get this perfect training conditions outside class, you have to just do the best you can.


Hope this helps...


Sensei Cox
Reply:once a week is not enough i suggest u train with a friend.
Reply:yes you are right you will need the technigue
Reply:hi josh, your gay with your dog.