This a serious question, because there does seem to be certain styles that martial artists seem to think is a joke! For EXAMPLE, you hardly ever hear anyone put down Muay Thai Kickboxing, but you%26#039;ll hear a lot of martial artists put down TKD.
Please give reasons with your response.
What martial art is considered a JOKE in the martial art community?
Ninjitsu (including Bujinkan, etc.) anything invoking Ninjitsu, Ninjas, or wears Ninja garb or Tabis.
Anything made up by someone.. including Dux-Ryu, Dillman%26#039;s Karate, anything remotely done by Ashida Kim.
Systema.
90% of the Reality Based Self Defense systems.
Few others, but those are the ones off the top of my head.
Reply:origami ????
all the best
Ian :)
Reply:In the martial arts television watching fan community, there are a lot.
In the practicing martial arts community, none.
Because practicing martial artists understand the value of the martial arts lie deeper than in a set of techniques and that there is much more to martial arts than learning how to use violence efficiently; Martial arts is a growth process that involves the whole person.
Reply:I don%26#039;t think the style is a joke, I think many of it%26#039;s practitioners are though. Yes, I am talking about tae kwon do. In Korea it is still taught correctly, at least from what I have heard. In the west though, especially America, tae kwon do stylists have become a joke in the martial arts community. This is due to the fact that it is a business concerned with making money, not a martial art concerned with self defense. Most schools teach tournament tae kwon do, point sparring that will get you hurt in the real world. Even the schools that try to teach the correct way of the art are overshadowed by the practices of their supposed brethren. Imagine losing your students because they can get a black belt in two years at the school down the road, as opposed to the four to six years it will take at your school. This is not solely a tae kwon do problem though, many schools, in many styles are following these unscrupulous business tactics. Ethics seem to be lost to these teachers. For those of us with schools that actually do teach self defense, and are not just black belt factories, it has become quite difficult to compete. Because many tae kwon do schools %26quot;lead the charge%26quot; as far as black belt factories and McDojos are concerned, and there is a majority of unethical schools of tae kwon do, the practitioners are considered a joke.
I mean no offense to any martial artist in any style, but this is the way I see things.
Reply:They put down TKD because they don%26#039;t know and there are a bunch of posers out there that make our art look bad.
Anyone who is serious about martial arts will not think any style is a joke. Anyone who answers otherwise is either lying through their teeth, they come from a McDojo or a school of %26quot;I-don%26#039;t-like-everyone-else-so-I%26#039;ll-make... Fu, or they have no clue what martial arts really is.
Reply:Well, you can make fun of all martial arts, it%26#039;s just that some styles leave themself open to it a little more than others, for example:
TKD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJDgWM5-9...
Wing Chung: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7KxuDYfp...
Aikido: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG_tnefyO...
These are extreme examples, I think, and I really hope so, but sometimes you look at something and then the guy tells you its something completely different , like that video of Ashida Kim doing his Kata Dante, the video that has been removed form youtube by them for some reason...
So for some people its like someone saying one + one is three instead of two
and ofcource there is chi and just ridiculous stuff like glactic do or something like that, that has links to male impotents products all over their website
Also some teachers look really funny
Reply:There reason there%26#039;s so much negativity out there about Taekwondo is because of the McDojo phenomina. There are other styles that are struck with the McDojo virus, but in the Taekwondo community it%26#039;s a plague. You might have one good Dojang for every 10 McDojos.
At a McDojo, you earn your blackbelt within a year, no matter how badly you suck.
At a McDojo, the costs are often quite high, especially %26quot;belt%26quot; testing fees.
At a McDojo, you do very few of the traditional exercises of the style (form) and replace effective attacks with flashy ones.
Good Takewondo looks an aweful lot like Shotokan Karate to me.
Reply:The KOREANS have no one but themselves to blame for this mess.The original TKD instructors were all DAN ranks in JAPANESE // OKINAWAN KARATE.
To back up the myth that TKD was descended from ancient korean arts they did %26quot;patch%26quot; jobs on the kata to make them appear %26quot;korean%26quot;.
Then there is the 35//40 year old 7th and 8th dans issue.
The bullshido that flying kicks were used to knock a horse man out of his saddle.
You have a guy on a horse feet in the stirrups armed with a sword or spear and you sare going to kick him out of the saddle.
Like I said bullshido.To do that you have to be kicking downwards which would require a leap of 15 feet hi.
But there are instructors out there still promoting this nonsense along with %26quot;you can hold him off with your feet%26quot; instead of saying %26quot;don%26#039;t use your feet to hold him off use your feet to end it with the 1st kick%26quot;
Hold em off is for tournaments not reality and to many TKD instructors have the 2 confused.
They want respect they should set the record straight do the katas as they were originally taught and forget the political nationalistic hogwash.
Reply:This also come from the fact the potential / student martial artist ultimate goal is the %26quot;Black Belt%26quot; obtained in the least amount of time with the minimum of efforts. These are the perfect customer for small business owners, the %26quot;Black Belt%26quot;, %26quot;Self-Defense%26quot; marketing tool is working.
This is not special to TKD, but because it is widely spread TKD tend to get this reputation more than other martial arts. Now, you can also find these schools that offer a mix of different martial arts, eg, Kung-Fu, BJJ, TKD, so 3 black belts for the price of one in less than 2 years. As sad as it sounds this school exists and thriving!!!!
Reply:anything that is a McDojo.
McDojo -Noun- A dojo that hand out rank belt as fast as they can to make fast cash.
Reply:The quality and frequency far outweigh the style being trained in.
Artists dis TKD because there are so many fake school under this style. I have met at least 18 TKD %26quot;black-belts%26quot; under the age of 15 who know nothing about true martial arts.
These types of people are giving the arts a bad name.
Please don%26#039;t let your friends train at a McDojo. It is better to just not train at all.
Reply:There is no style that should be considered a joke. It seems that the styles who get bad mouthed the most are the traditional styles. There are two things we must remember when talking about different styles, (1) ALL martial arts styles originated from traditional systems, developed by people who had certain needs for a very specific group of techniques. This accounts for the difference in styles from different areas. Even in styles from the same country. Look at the difference between Northern and Southern style kung fu from China. Neither set of systems are superior, just different. And (2) The fighter makes the style, not the style makes the fighter.
Reply:I%26#039;d say the biggest one%26#039;s of which are :
Tae Kwon Do/Tang Soo Do
Karate (excluding Kyokushin)
Why? Because they%26#039;re largely sports over combat...and they tend to give out black belts to little children as marketing gimmicks, especially TKD.
I have respect for Karate to a point...I have absolutely zero respect for TKD for those reasons amongst many others.
Reply:Boxing and wrestling........they aren%26#039;t really martial arts..........TKD is mostly kicks and it shouldn%26#039;t be a joke I have a black belt in Karate and had to fight someone in TKD.........I won though but still.
Reply:People just don%26#039;t like TKD because it%26#039;s more of a sport than a fight.
They neglect the importance of punching and even blocking punches.
TKD practitioners can%26#039;t fight in a ring.
Some may put down TKD for the wrong reason, but I put it down because it%26#039;s not practical.
I have 2 excellent TKD practitioner friends. One is in the national US team and the other is Jr Olympic champion.
I sparred them and I was surprised of how easy it was for me to beat them. They even say that TKD is not practical fighting style but it%26#039;s just a sport.
Reply:Hands down, it%26#039;s TKD. In my opinion, TKD has been watered down to the point that it%26#039;s no longer a martial art. It%26#039;s become a martial sport. TKD is something to send your kids to as an after school activity. McDojos pumping out black belts at a nauseating pace. It%26#039;s a sad state of affairs for TKD.
Let%26#039;s face it people, TKD is nothing more then Tae Bo now a days. It%26#039;s a workout disguised as a martial art. Wow, neat. You can jump 7ft and do a flying heel kick. How practical in a street fight.
TKD practitioners that wonder why they aren%26#039;t taken seriously in the martial art community is like McDonald%26#039;s employees wondering why they are taken seriously in the workforce.
But TKD has it%26#039;s place. It%26#039;s good cardio and can be great for youngster%26#039;s self-esteem. But please don%26#039;t kid yourself into thinking that TKD is a valid fighting system. I%26#039;ve seen demonstrations where a TKD %26quot;black belt%26quot; sparred with a complete amateur. After about 3 minutes, the amateur caught on and simply did %26quot;block his kick-push him over%26quot; combos. Looked like a little kid rough housing with his father.
Perhaps TKD isn%26#039;t a joke. I don%26#039;t know. I%26#039;ve never seen a practioner really wow me, or even make me stop and consider my view point may be wrong. And with all the TKD practitioners out there, I take it as a SCARY sign that not a single one has ever demonstrated solid fighting abilities to me. You%26#039;d figure with the black belt factories out there, SOMEONE would be able to actually fight.
Reply:My answer is based of a fine show on the History Channel called %26#039;The Human Weapon.%26quot; For those who might not be familiar with it, the show revolves around the history and techniques of a form of martial art. The two hosts train with various masters over the course of two weeks, then have an exhibition match against a former champ or current one.
Most of the time, they lose...badly. It seems that the practitioner they are fighting lets them look good for a while, then decides it is time to win and proceeds to decimate whoever they are fighting.
Then they went to France for Savate. For those that watched the episode, the fantastic art of kickboxing was put into the ring with the host that has no high kick, no medium kick and barely a low kick. He fought a current champion...and tied. Mind you this is with a grand total of two weeks training. And from the fight, both fighters were trying their hardest.
So, the French fight with special shoes and kicks, and get tied with a lummox who barely learned the art over the weekend.
Reply:I always resist responding to such questions, as I believe they to not add the the discussion and knowledge but merely continue misperceptions, misinformation, and are negative in connotation. That said, as a TaeKwon-Do instructor and practitioner I feel a responsibility to defend it as an art, if not some of the business practices I have seen that martial artists in many disciplines have engaged in.
First let me say that I%26#039;ve been involved in the arts in the US for about fifteen years, meeting many different artists and seeing many different disciplines. I believe all traditional martial arts, and all quality martial artists have vitrue, value, and worthwhile knowledge to pass on, and it is reprehensible for a fellow martial artist to tar an entire discipline with an overgeneralized, over simplified view.
With regard to TaeKwon-Do, as a discpline it is effective, useful, and valid. It%26#039;s history is an amalgamation of many concepts and techniques, just as many other arts art today. The idea that Japan, China, Korea, the Phillipines and any other country isolated and held entirely secret their fighting systems and styles is fallacy. Cultural, philosophical, and technical exchanges have always occurred and while the history of TaeKwon-Do is credited as resulting largely from former Korean systems which are historically valid, such as Taekyon, there is undubltedly a strong influence from Karate. That has never been denied by the person I recognize as one of TaeKwon-Do%26#039;s founders, General Choi, Hong Hi.
There are many instructors teaching many varied styles of TaeKwon-Do around the world today. While the South Korean World TaeKwon-Do Federation has adopted the idea of TaeKwon-Do as the national sport of South Korea, the International TaeKwon-Do Federation has never moved away from General Choi%26#039;s philosophy that TaeKwon-Do is a martial art. Although ITF and WTF TaeKwon-Do are very similar in nature, they are very different in many technical, exectution, and some focus aspects. Most instructors, myself included, have a solid background in both, and merge aspects of each when teaching.
The greatest blight on the martail arts business side, and alternatively the greatest asset when used with an ethical and moral compass, are the financial support companies that provide business information, guidance, and support to many studios. It was through these sources over twelve years ago that I first heard of %26quot;3 year guaranteed black belt programs%26quot;, of tuiton contaracts for 7 year olds that committed them for one year, of increasing the belt system to as many as 16 gup ranks to %26quot;keep people interested.%26quot;
It is undoubtely true that the martial arts was woefully lacking in the business aspects of our development as an industry, and many schools failed to cover the essential basics like liability insurance, first aid training for instructors, or effective customer relation training. As a result of poor business practices, poor management skills, and poor basics, a number of good instructors with good schools failed to keep their doors open. Into this came unscrupulous instructors with little real experience or desire for the growth of the art who saw an opportunity to make a buck and buy a beamer. I%26#039;ve seen this in most disciplines in California, though I must admit that I have been more exposed to in in the TaeKwon-Do world because I move in that world a lot.
I withdrew from formal support of the WTF, and the US national governing bodies as a result of this corruption, and their misguided policies and direction in my opinion. That said, I have had the honor, privilage, and pleasure of meeting a great number of experienced, quality, committed, and dedicated TaeKwon-Do instructors who teach this art in a very effective and principaled way.
Business is an essential part of being able to create an effective environment that provides a professional basis for teaching, a secure environemnt for the students, and a quality program of development and advancement. Business is not a dirty word, it should be one of the things to consider when selecting an instructor. If their school is set up professionally, competently, and effectively, it is likely the rest of the conduct and school will run likewise. This does not mean the instructor will or should try to milk every cent out of you, but it should be the same standard you would expect from your doctors office, or your accountants office.
As others have stated, it is rarely the discipline that is the joke when you are talking about traditional martail arts disciplines. Human nature, even within the martial arts, often results in the inclusion of bad apples and unscrupulous indiviudals who will take advantage of the unaware. It is up to the rest of us in the martail arts community to try to help new students and existing students to come to a broader understanding of all of these issues, and to help them come to theri own informed decsion - not to simply deride exsiting disciplines as %26quot;jokes.%26quot; I think we do a dis-service to everyone by such comments.
Ken C
9th Dan HapMoosaKi-Do
8th Dan TaeKwon-Do
7th Dan YongChul-Do
Reply:To have the chance we have nowadays and be able to openly study any art as long as we have the proper school around us for it, when back then it depended on your ethnicity to get in. And for someone to reject this treasure because its apparently not good enough is a fool.
I don%26#039;t know about you, but I%26#039;ll take any and all knowledge I can get my hands on to prepare for a fight. So I have all the tools while you only have the few that you considered were good.
Reply:Any martial arts that tell you that they can blast you with their Ki/Chi. Or they can send you flying with the lightest touch and sometimes, even without!
Example like this:
Part 1 A Master demo Chi Self defense
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc
Part 2 MMA guy sign agreement, then fight the master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMgVmFzBr...
Part 3 The fight from another angle on what happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jf3Gc2a0...
Reply:Aikido, TKD, Karate, Kung Fu (barring San Shou), Ninjitsu are all seen as jokes
Reply:I don%26#039;t think any martial arts are jokes. I think some of them have next to no real application any more because they%26#039;ve been made into such sports. ex: TKD, some karate styles, wushu.
Other than that it just depends on what you choose to practice.
Reply:MMA
wallflower
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