Do you think regarding all martial arts as completely equal is politically correct nonsense?

Just hear me out please





First, I don%26#039;t think there is any magical super style that dominates all. But aren%26#039;t there far less valuable versions of just about everything that isn%26#039;t hard science?





There are more efficient ways than others of executing kicks and punches that are more economical, put more force behind it, and leave you less open. You can show for example, that a boxer%26#039;s punch implements a lot of body mechanics and you are able to generate great amounts of force.





Like all athletic events, there are simply better ideas than other. Throwing a football %26quot;like a girl%26quot; is obviously not as good as using one that implements sport physics. There are several good ways to shoot a basketball accurately in a competitive game but none of them include the %26quot;between the legs toss up%26quot;.





Will people really claim the Crane Style is just as effective as something taught to the military like Krav Maga?

Do you think regarding all martial arts as completely equal is politically correct nonsense?
Firstly: Using Krav Maga vs Crane Style is flawed. One is an art, and one is a combat system. There%26#039;s a big difference between the two, and Krav Maga isn%26#039;t hard: It gets the job done. It%26#039;s more dirty, than hard.





Speaking of the military- Research the quote %26quot;San Shou is the quintessence of Wushu,%26quot; and research how many different styles are a part of the MCMAP. That just furthers my point.





As for the rest: No. It%26#039;s true. All things are equal, because the only means by which they are different is how they%26#039;re getting from point A to point B.





You have to understand that a lot of arts do emphasize similar elements within the fighting ranges that they cover. Boxing, Tae Kwon Do, Karate, and even kung fu in some cases ALL use kinetic linking for punches. They may not speak so much anatomically as in the case of boxing (But they do have much more to teach than four punches, and about 40 variations at most, with a few dodges, slips, and so on), but they will say %26quot;It comes from the ground. Turn your body into your punch. The power comes from your leg muscles.%26quot;





Fight science wasn%26#039;t as credible as it could be, but I%26#039;m just going to say this:


The Wushu guy was the quickest, the TKD had the fastest reaction time, the boxer punched the hardest, the bujinkan guy had the best balance, and the Muay Thai guy kneed (Which isn%26#039;t a kick, but eh..) the hardest. Which is most important? How about a little bit of all of those, hmm? Besides the ability to elude being the best thing: All of those are helpful things in fights.





Secondly: You realize there%26#039;s 6 billion people on earth, right? Why would you expect x type of move or style to be the only one around, when you and I are in completely different situations? I%26#039;ve taken almost 10 different styles (And I%26#039;m about to start MMA), I%26#039;m ectomorphic, I%26#039;m 5%26#039; 10%26quot; 1/2. What are you?





Speaking of which:





Do you honestly think we%26#039;re suppose to do the same movements, EXACTLY? There%26#039;s no way that me kicking like x is always going to be stronger, than you or your friend kicking like y. It%26#039;s NOT that simple in any stretch of the word. Not to mention how we%26#039;re built different (Size, muscle, et cetera...), what we%26#039;re kicking for, and so on.





What many of the people that do say %26quot;They%26#039;re all equal%26quot; are saying is that training method (Emphasis on that), and training frequency are determinants of how well a style works. It isn%26#039;t political correctness: Training to defend yourself is different from training to be an MMA fighter.





You might have similar tools, but you don%26#039;t need to be the fittest person ever to defend yourself in the street (It helps, but it%26#039;s not a requirement). You%26#039;re not winning a belt: You%26#039;re fighting to survive. This doesn%26#039;t imply that MMA doesn%26#039;t work for street-situations, but it does imply that either case of someone doing xyz number of styles that cover all the fighting ranges that has intense sparring methods vs. MMA fighting can both equate to self-defense and street fighting ability.





There%26#039;s many training methods that are easily changed to add and subtract things for more completeness and intensity within arts. An art as soft as Tai Chi can be made readily available for self-defense with sparring added.





Because of the popularity increase of BJJ and groundfighting in general: A lot of schools are teaching groundfighting, or at least how to avoid it.


That can vary though: Whether you%26#039;re doing hapmundo, or the basic JJJ, advanced BJJ, and so on. They all work, because once again: There%26#039;s only subtle differences that occur.


If you ask an JJJ instructor, a Hapkido instructor, and a BJJ instructor: ALL three of them are likely to be able to teach you how to execute an armbar. If you ask a JJJ instructor, a Hapkido Instructor, and a Judo instructor? They%26#039;re ALL likely to be able to teach you how to do a shoulder throw. It%26#039;s going to vary how it%26#039;s done, and no one way of doing it is better than them all intrinsically. The judo instructor might have the best execution, but there%26#039;s someone in those other arts that could at least match him in the same ability to do so.





Essentially what Lee and many others are stating is that you have to %26quot;Technically%26quot; make your own art from pieces and parts taken from many style to get well-rounded. That%26#039;s conceptual Jeet Kune Do (But there%26#039;s many styles of it: Jun Fan Kung Fu is sort of an emulation of what Lee did, JKD might be that or something between JKD concepts and JFKF, et cetera...), and pretty much a precursor of modern MMA if you will.





Unless you%26#039;ve already heard this-


%26quot;A punch is a punch. A kick is a kick.%26quot;





This is why we say it, and that%26#039;s why we said %26quot;Go to a good school, that specialized in the kind of training you want.%26quot; Training methods are not intrinsically related to styles. Some of the techniques are, but I can train as hard as a competitive fighter if I wanted to with either of those styles you listed. Crane style doesn%26#039;t have groundfighting though





Some styles emphasize defense over offense, or the opposite. Of course, that%26#039;s what those styles are for: Self-defense. Not doing MMA matches, not doing k-1.


Again:





There%26#039;s a huge difference between self-defense, martial arts, and combat systems. Martial arts can have concepts of all of them, but if you want self-defense at its core: Take self defense classes. If you want a combat system: Take a combat system.





Think of fighting someone with a more defensive style. It would be like being in battle with a big shield, and a dagger.


A more offensive style: Smaller shield, and a broad sword (Let%26#039;s be fun and say it%26#039;s a Chinese Dao lol :p). Who wins the fight? The person with more skill.





As for the little note about Lee: He did like boxing, but WHAT did he do when he decided to add it to his repertoire? MIX it with the rest of stuff that he knows, which included Wing Chug elements as well as Northern Shaolin kicking, then savate, then Korean kicking, and then he added grappling. He didn%26#039;t throw Wing Chun out completely until he decided to dismantle the whole concept of JKD being a style: He subtracted some parts, and added other elements from boxing. And yes one of the reasons he was so well-known was because of how hard he TRAINED. (Emphasis on that word too)








Oh, and hey first replier: The people at bullshido live by this- Training Method %26gt; Skill %26gt; Style. It%26#039;s no joke: I go to bullshido too. Tai Chi Chuan is actually good style, but Tai Chi without the %26quot;Fist%26quot; at the end doesn%26#039;t teach combat until later levels. Why does that make it less? Training methods? Oh I don%26#039;t know...
Reply:Firstly- The horse stance is for training only. You adopt a stance like boxing when you fight in most TKD/Karate Schools. Report It

Reply:Secondly- Tae Kwon Do is traditonally hard. If you look at its roots: It%26#039;s not what it used to be. Where do we have to go again: Training method. ^____^ (And of course sport TKD is not as ideal as traditional for self defense: It%26#039;s simple logic :P) Report It

Reply:Nice work Jon. Report It

Reply:I agree with you. But whenever you state that thought on here, a load of politically correct eejuts leap down your throat about it, with such time worn phrases as %26quot;Its the martial artist, not the art%26quot;.


Okay, so why arent there any world champion Tai Chi fighters?


http://www.bullshido.com - go for sanity.
Reply:i don%26#039;t really know but i practice muay thai and in my opinion it is the best form of martial art. true there are better ways of punching and kicking than others but the best style is really the 1 that the person using it finds best. all martial arts are effective if you train hard and focus on what u r doing.





but i think ive totally misinterpruted the question lol so never mind
Reply:Well there is not much science done for martial arts at the moment so a lot of things can be argued until the cows come home, usually it isn%26#039;t just about the most efficient punch, you can%26#039;t just get the BEST kick the BEST punch the BEST stance the BEST block and put them together, they might not mix together so its all about how a style mixes those things up and produces results





People will always claim their style is the best until they humble themselves and go out to learn the other martial arts, I think its great that there is MMA because regardles of the sneaky techniques a fighter should still be able to stand up, at least in a MMA match, fair enough if you don%26#039;t know any submission fighting no matter what stylle you do the result will look the same but there is stand up MMA as well and its just ridiculous that a style can consistently be loosing against another style and still claim its better even when the rules are in their favour as in TKD going into a Kyokushin tournament where punches are not allowed, if 10 TKD fighters went into a kyokushin tournament and 2 won 4 did alright, fair enough as long as they stood up to it, but if 10 fighters go in and every single one of them gets dominated you know there is somethign wrong with the art, either that or the art attracts people who are really weak which is BS because every martial art attracts weak people and its the arts job to turn those people into strong fighters not keep them weak
Reply:Crane style Kung fu was a good style developed for defence weapons, the sweeping hands and legs allowed the practitioner the ability to move fluidly around the attacks common at the time.


martial arts that stagnate become less usefull against things that were not common at the time of its devlopment. while they still have core values that are in common of the evolved forms of that style (rooting, centering, remaining calm and footwork among them)


Krav Maga is a good art form if someone is trying to kill you and you need to kill or mame them first. whereas judo is great if you just need to stop somebody from doing something dumb. (grandpa is off his meds and going crazy) you wouldn%26#039;t want to punch granddad in the face then stomp his head now would you?


if all you learn is the best way to pound somebody you better hope everyone needs pounded. or as the saying goes if all you have is a hammer every thing better be a nail.
Reply:So the %26quot;between-the-legs-toss-up%26quot; method of basketball isn%26#039;t accurate... Well, tell it to the fella who accurately tossed a few baskets that way -- in a competitive game. Of course, the same method is useless in a soccer game............... Yeah, I know, in soccer you have to use the feet -- but hand-to-hand is useless in a gunfight, and a flying kick is a poor defense against a sword.





In Martial Arts, it is about skill, not just %26quot;power%26quot;; that%26#039;s why %26quot;rank%26quot; is counted according to the color of the belt and/or %26quot;degree%26quot;. See, a person highly skilled in Judo can win against a person with so-so skill in %26quot;Krav Maga%26quot;; the %26quot;strong%26quot; person wastes all his %26quot;power%26quot; on trying to hit hard, while the %26quot;weak%26quot; person uses his skill to avoid being hit -- and thereby becomes the victor. Where the two are evenly matched in both skill and/or strength, the one who wins is the one who makes the least amount of mistakes -- or the one to successfully utilize an opening, which quite often amounts to the same thing.





It really IS the person doing the Martial Art -- and not the style. Learn the Art, gain Skill, and whichever style you learn will be just as good as any other style.





Oh, and the remark about a boxing punch being better because it uses the whole body... Bruce Lee was able to punch so hard he could a man out -- moving only his arm, and not his body. Mr. Lee combined great SKILL with disciplined STRENGTH.





And Tai Ch%26#039;i is NOT about fighting, although the moves can be used in a fight -- it is about CONTROL and DISCIPLINE. Just as modern Kyudo is not about the Military use of Archery. Talk about eedjits.......
Reply:Well, if you mean in a sense that they all teach you self control and to kick toochy when you need to YES, but they all have different phylosophies in a way and different moves! I don%26#039;t know, I think they are similar but not completely equal.
Reply:JUDO could not beat Krav Maga in any shape or form you idiot not u mr cow just the guy answering ya question
Reply:I see you point but I disagree... I think really it is training methods and experience in the end.





When you are talking about something like Krav too remember that this is designed to teach people quickly and something like Crane is designed to be learned over many years, so sure in the short term Krav would kick die to it%26#039;s training ect, however Crane would be just as effective once the fighter has reach maturity.





Blah.
Reply:I think it depends on your objectives.


Some martial arts on heath, some are philosophical/religous, others culture, other more on sport, others self-defense or war/law enforcement.


Health-Tai Chi


Philosophical - Aikido


Culture - Kung Fu, Capoeira,


Sport - Tae Kwon Do, Karate,kickboxing


Self-defense - Jujitsu,


Law Enforcement - Kali, Krav Maga


Of course there is alots of overlaps.
Reply:I agree that certain styles are easier to use effectively, that doesn%26#039;t make other styles less effective though. Now this is of course speaking of real martial arts styles, not just some McDojo crap or scam claiming to teach government ninja seals. Let us say two fighters from different styles face off. One is known for practicing a fluid, circular %26quot;soft%26quot; style of martial arts. The second fighter is known for his straight forward, aggressive,%26quot;hard%26quot; style. Either could win, it just would be less in the way of convention for the guy using the more straight forward style.
Reply:This is a direct response to atheism...maybe there are no world champion Tai Chi fighters because Tai Chi is not meant to be in a ring with rules, and that just maybe by the time somebody gets good enough in the style they have surpassed the need to stroke their ego by fighting.


All Martial Arts if taught correctly and not McDojo style have value, even if it is not for the same thing. Are you going to tell the guy who used Tai Chi practice to help him win a battle with cancer that it is useless? Are you going to tell the parent that has a child with ADD and doesn%26#039;t want to pump them full of drugs that the karate classes that have calmed him down and enabled him to focus are useless? Are you going to tell the abused women that the Kung Fu classes that she is taking that have returned her self worth and given her self respect back are not as valuble as any other?





Think about it, not everyone trains Martial Arts to fight. if you do you lose a lot.
Reply:1st off krav maga will not defeat any good judo bjj or mma fighter .It is a limited self defense course designed for lazy people who want a quick fix .





Krav is taught as %26quot;here is the attack here is the response%26quot;


That is short sighted they dont teach %26quot;here is what you do if your response fails or is countered%26quot;which the other arts do.


All arts are great when they work but you need to know what to do if they dont.That requires years of training.





Irregardless of your style you must explore reseach and develope .If you find a more powerful way to punch to kick to grapple do it .


If you have self respect and a good attitude towards society you will probably never have to use it anyway.
Reply:In my martial arts career this question had already been resolved back in 1968.





It is a fact that not all martial arts are the same and some martial arts are not complete systems. A lot of martial arts were designed for a limited confrontation while other martial arts teach a complete curriculum of skills.





Military styles such as: Ketsugo, JUKADO, Krav Magna, Sambo, Marine Corp Martial Arts Program, etc. etc. are designed to be taught and learned in a very short period of time (just as the Samurai taught their peasant draftees fundamental forms of Ju-Jutsu). And these %26#039;military styles%26#039; of martial arts tend to be rude and crude and not always effective.





It is also an accepted fact that it depends on the skill of an individual practitioner to make any style effective.





Then there are the complete systems of martial arts such as Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, Karate, or Kung fu (and all their styles) which take decades of hard practice to learn. These martial arts teach weapons usage as well as weapons defense and defense against multiple attackers under every and all conditions. Again this requires a life-time of study beginning at ages 4, 5, or 6 and becoming very good by ages 19 thru 25 (your prime fighting years).





So the answer is NO, not all martial arts are EQUAL, yet each one is excellent for what it was designed to do.
Reply:The problem is that there is no consistency in the arts. Jakes%26#039;s Krav Maga in New Jersey may not be the same as Saul%26#039;s Krav Maga in Jerusalem. So, to say that this style is superior would be flawed. This is just an example.


I have come to the conclusion that the quality and frequency of one%26#039;s training will far outweigh the style you train in.


For example, let%26#039;s say Bob studies %26quot;deathand%26quot;, he goes to a school once a week and pussyfoots around for an hour and a half and then goes home and doesn%26#039;t practice on his own. But Sam studies %26quot;Sport kicking%26quot;, he trains hard every night, he does medium contact and he works out to be a better fighter.


%26quot;Deathhand%26quot; is a superior style to %26quot;Sport kicking%26quot;, who do you think would fare better in a self-defense situation?


I would bet the guy that trains harder will do better.





Therefore, we must all decide for ourselves what is %26quot;superior%26quot; based on our own observations and logical deductions.